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footynotpokies
the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 5 2010, 1:39 AM EDT | Post edited: May 5 2010, 1:39 AM EDT
Will the current auction process result in less machines in AFL clubs or their drinking/gambling investment s.
I can see special treatment being afforded the AFL clubs to protect this insidious source of revenue, if they dont get what they want.
Then there is the so called community benefit of using pokies tax to pay professional players ... a joke. 3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
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Posted Anonymously
1. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 5 2010, 7:22 PM EDT | Post edited: May 5 2010, 7:22 PM EDT
Could not agreee more. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

Posted Anonymously
2. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 1:51 AM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 1:51 AM EDT
"Will the current auction process result in less machines in AFL clubs or their drinking/gambling investment s.
I can see special treatment being afforded the AFL clubs to protect this insidious source of revenue, if they dont get what they want.
Then there is the so called community benefit of using pokies tax to pay professional players ... a joke."
There is no special treatment given to any venues during the auction process!!! If they have the money then they can buy the entitlements. The auction is today. I'm sure all will be revealed in the coming days. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

Posted Anonymously
3. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 2:57 AM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 2:57 AM EDT
The auction ................The word means sell to the highest bidder.......anyone in Melbourne cant bid for the Pokies can they............? As far as I can tell , its a select few. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
balancedapproach
balancedapproach
4. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 8:57 AM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 8:57 AM EDT
"The auction ................The word means sell to the highest bidder.......anyone in Melbourne cant bid for the Pokies can they............? As far as I can tell , its a select few."
Anyone who was a venue operator by December last year could participate in the auction today, and anyone could have become a venue operator as long as they fitted the requirements. A number of venues that don't have pokies have gone in the auction today so they will be spread a lot more around Victoria... Gee, that's ticked a few of you off hasn't it??? 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
EGM-Watch
EGM-Watch
5. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 9:37 AM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 9:37 AM EDT
"Anyone who was a venue operator by December last year could participate in the auction today, and anyone could have become a venue operator as long as they fitted the requirements. A number of venues that don't have pokies have gone in the auction today so they will be spread a lot more around Victoria... Gee, that's ticked a few of you off hasn't it???"
Not really.
It is the secrecy that surrounds these auctions. Look at today's Herald Sun.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/pokies-licences-sold-in-secret/story-e6frf7jo-1225864758876
Furthermore, the largest pokie operator, the Woolworths / Mathieson joint venture looks likely to benefit most.
Finally, the Productivity Commission itself expressed concern that easy access to pokie gambling may be contributing to addiction. Do you find this valuable?    
balancedapproach
balancedapproach
6. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 9:53 AM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 9:53 AM EDT
"Not really.
It is the secrecy that surrounds these auctions. Look at today's Herald Sun.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/pokies-licences-sold-in-secret/story-e6frf7jo-1225864758876
Furthermore, the largest pokie operator, the Woolworths / Mathieson joint venture looks likely to benefit most.
Finally, the Productivity Commission itself expressed concern that easy access to pokie gambling may be contributing to addiction."
Mathieson has to lose 1400 machines by 1st of June according to the email I saw last week.
And don't talk to me about the Herald Sun after the story they published a couple of Sundays ago quoting the Canadian professor advising the practices in Ontario and hinting that those practices go on here. They never let the truth get in the way of a good story!!! 0  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
EGM-Watch
EGM-Watch
7. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 3:14 PM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 3:14 PM EDT
"Mathieson has to lose 1400 machines by 1st of June according to the email I saw last week.
And don't talk to me about the Herald Sun after the story they published a couple of Sundays ago quoting the Canadian professor advising the practices in Ontario and hinting that those practices go on here. They never let the truth get in the way of a good story!!!"
Please point out what you felt was untruthful about the story concerning Professor Harrigan. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

Posted Anonymously
8. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 8:00 PM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 8:00 PM EDT
"Please point out what you felt was untruthful about the story concerning Professor Harrigan."
One part about extra jackpot symbols coming up, another part about winning combinations coming up on lines that you are not playing to make you play more lines. These 2 points are absolute rubbish. Of course the HS did have a 2 line preface very early in the story saying "We don't know if this happens in Victoria", and it doesn't. They were also factually and legally wrong with the payback percentages. They said that all machines in Victoria have an average payback percentage of 87%. WRONG. Average return to player across the network is 90-91%. They then said that 1c machines in Victoria payback 85%, this is LEGALLY WRONG. 3.6.1 of the Gambling Regulation Act 2003 states that every machine in Victoria must pay back a minimum of 87% return to player, and they do. So don't get me started about them, they have a massive agenda against machines and never let the truth get in the way of a good story!!! Do you find this valuable?    
EGM-Watch
EGM-Watch
10. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 9:30 PM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 9:30 PM EDT
"One part about extra jackpot symbols coming up, another part about winning combinations coming up on lines that you are not playing to make you play more lines. These 2 points are absolute rubbish. Of course the HS did have a 2 line preface very early in the story saying "We don't know if this happens in Victoria", and it doesn't. They were also factually and legally wrong with the payback percentages. They said that all machines in Victoria have an average payback percentage of 87%. WRONG. Average return to player across the network is 90-91%. They then said that 1c machines in Victoria payback 85%, this is LEGALLY WRONG. 3.6.1 of the Gambling Regulation Act 2003 states that every machine in Victoria must pay back a minimum of 87% return to player, and they do. So don't get me started about them, they have a massive agenda against machines and never let the truth get in the way of a good story!!!"
There is some confusion about the guaranteed return to player. The legal requirement is 87¢. The average return is 90¢ although what is average is never defined. $1 machines usually have higher RTPs than 1¢ or 5¢ machines.
The part about unbalanced reels is the case in Canada. It is likely to be the same in Australia but this can not be proven because the gaming manufacturers won't release the documentation that will prove or disprove this.
The fact is that the guaranteed RTP is only guaranteed for the "spin cycle" of the machine. The typical Victorian spin cycle is 80 million spins. Dr Harrigan's studies found that the gambler does not get close to the guaranteed return until about 100,000 spins.
The main point about modifying Losses Disguised as Wins was put to and rejected by the industry in 2008. Do you find this valuable?    
balancedapproach
balancedapproach
11. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 10 2010, 11:39 PM EDT | Post edited: May 10 2010, 11:39 PM EDT
"There is some confusion about the guaranteed return to player. The legal requirement is 87¢. The average return is 90¢ although what is average is never defined. $1 machines usually have higher RTPs than 1¢ or 5¢ machines.
The part about unbalanced reels is the case in Canada. It is likely to be the same in Australia but this can not be proven because the gaming manufacturers won't release the documentation that will prove or disprove this.
The fact is that the guaranteed RTP is only guaranteed for the "spin cycle" of the machine. The typical Victorian spin cycle is 80 million spins. Dr Harrigan's studies found that the gambler does not get close to the guaranteed return until about 100,000 spins.
The main point about modifying Losses Disguised as Wins was put to and rejected by the industry in 2008. "
I would suggest you get your facts right. The law says that the return must be over a 12 month period and it is. I would be happy to take you into a venue and I'll show you the audit screens and the meters to prove this point. I think you are listening to this Canadian a little bit too much when perhaps you should be concentrating on what is actually going on in Victoria!!! 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

Posted Anonymously
12. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 14 2010, 5:49 AM EDT | Post edited: May 14 2010, 5:49 AM EDT
I find it most unbeleavable that the POKIE industry has managed to elbow its way into our lives in this State. 3  out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?    

Posted Anonymously
13. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 14 2010, 6:11 AM EDT | Post edited: May 14 2010, 6:11 AM EDT
"I find it most unbeleavable that the POKIE industry has managed to elbow its way into our lives in this State."
It's been here for 18 years and is guaranteed to be here for at least another 12 years. Build a bridge and get over it!!! 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
EGM-Watch
EGM-Watch
14. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 14 2010, 7:27 AM EDT | Post edited: May 14 2010, 7:27 AM EDT
"I would suggest you get your facts right. The law says that the return must be over a 12 month period and it is. I would be happy to take you into a venue and I'll show you the audit screens and the meters to prove this point. I think you are listening to this Canadian a little bit too much when perhaps you should be concentrating on what is actually going on in Victoria!!!"
That is not correct. It is the spin cycle of the machine. Victorian Department of Justice authorised documents indicate that this is 80 million spins. Much more than 1 year. Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
15. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 15 2010, 4:32 AM EDT | Post edited: May 15 2010, 4:32 AM EDT
"It's been here for 18 years and is guaranteed to be here for at least another 12 years. Build a bridge and get over it!!!"
Sorry to read that........I would not Guarantee anything for 12 years, no other big company does either.
We are all building a bridge to get to the other side, and when we do get there, they will be gone, all info points to that. casinos will always be here, but not the pokies. Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
16. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 15 2010, 6:20 PM EDT | Post edited: May 15 2010, 6:20 PM EDT
"That is not correct. It is the spin cycle of the machine. Victorian Department of Justice authorised documents indicate that this is 80 million spins. Much more than 1 year."
Might I suggest you read 3.6.1 of the Gambling Regulation Act 2003 which quotes the words "Each Year".
Also, the cycle of a machine depends on the number of symbols on each reel, for example Aristocrat's Big Ben machine has a cycle of 48.6 million spins, which is totally irrelevant as the law says 12 months. It's also 12 months and beyond from when the machine was last master reset. Do you find this valuable?    
balancedapproach
balancedapproach
17. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 15 2010, 6:22 PM EDT | Post edited: May 15 2010, 6:22 PM EDT
"Might I suggest you read 3.6.1 of the Gambling Regulation Act 2003 which quotes the words "Each Year".
Also, the cycle of a machine depends on the number of symbols on each reel, for example Aristocrat's Big Ben machine has a cycle of 48.6 million spins, which is totally irrelevant as the law says 12 months. It's also 12 months and beyond from when the machine was last master reset."
Sorry, that was me, forgot to sign in again. Do you find this valuable?    
balancedapproach
balancedapproach
18. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 15 2010, 6:23 PM EDT | Post edited: May 15 2010, 6:23 PM EDT
"Sorry to read that........I would not Guarantee anything for 12 years, no other big company does either.
We are all building a bridge to get to the other side, and when we do get there, they will be gone, all info points to that. casinos will always be here, but not the pokies. "
I didn't think anyone could be that ignorant. Oh well, I'll talk to you in 12 years time!!! Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
19. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 20 2010, 5:52 PM EDT | Post edited: May 20 2010, 5:52 PM EDT
Monash University's Dr Charles Livingstone said machines in one of ALH's Braybrook hotels made $200,000 a year on average, but 10-year licences to operate the machines had been bought for just over $84,000.

"They will be paid off in three months," Dr Livingstone said.

"These guys are getting licences to print money at a very low price."
 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

nellgwynn55
20. RE: the pokies auction & Vic AFL clubs
May 21 2010, 5:17 AM EDT | Post edited: May 21 2010, 5:17 AM EDT
"The law says that the return must be over a 12 month period and it is. I would be happy to take you into a venue and I'll show you the audit screens and the meters to prove this point. "
I would be happy to take you to three venues in SA and to show you the hard meters of at least five machines where the RTP has been sitting around 70% for the last three years. And before you ask, the OLGC knows. They argue the law re RTP in SA (as it is in all other states) is theoretical and as long as a game returns the minum over its lifetime and/or that all identical games on identical machines operating in the state together return the minimum, then any one machine in any one venue is considered to comply with the law. e.g. if one 1c dolphin treasure game with a set RTP of 91.75% in venue A returns just 70% and all other 1c dolphin treasure game with a set RTP of 91.75% operating in the other 400 venues across the state together return 95%, then the machine returning 70% is still legal. Using this logic, no venue/game owner can ever know whether or not their particular game/machine is operating correctly as they are supposed to under state law. The law is used to protect the machine operators from litigation, not to proect the customer from being ripped off for years. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
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