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Discussion: Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
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Banpokies1 |
Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
Jul 31 2008, 6:53 PM EDT
Tabcorp Holdings undertook as a firm commitment in 2004 AND 2005 to ensure that ALL of their venues would keep all gambling machines functional and useable until closing time of the venue. They agreed to this measure with Michael Heaton QC, Independent Person presiding over an Independent COmplaint Resolution Process action, managing a complaint from a consumer who was found to have been harmed b ythe practice of early closing of machines. The consumer was awarded a payout by Tabaret venues eventually but the consumer refused to take the money because it would have meant keeping silent.Point is...early machine-closing was found to exacerbate an addicted problem gambler's spending by inciting anxiety, frustration, fear and desire to play harder and faster, similar to study findings that examined poker machine users' behaviour when it was argued that machines must not become 'scarce commodities' in venues. The Venue Operators' Code of Practice was found to have been breached by venues who closed machines early. The Tabcorp venues that we have visited since, have all broken this rule (except Aces) and the promise by Tabcorp Holdings has been ignored and allowed to be broken. www.dutyofcare.org.au Protest with Duty of Care Inc on Sunday 24th August 2008 at Sydney's Tumbalong Park, Darling Harbour, at 10.30am. Wear a mask that shows your loathing of poker machines....and come and join us as an 'unidentified' body...see our site for mask suggestions and details. Please send on? Libby Mitchell. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
EGM-Watch |
1. RE: Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
Jul 31 2008, 8:23 PM EDT
I have looked through both Tattersall's and Tabcorp's Codes of Practice and could not find this requirement. I believe that Tatt's Code can be found here: http://www.vgmis.org/frame.asp?content=code_prc.html I believe that the Tabcorp code is found here:http://www.tabcorp.com.au/resources.ashx/pagecontentchilddatadocuments/726/FileName/4238A83AB9F375675C90799EBD0F1E3D/Code_Of_Practice_FINAL.pdf I am sure that I am missing something! If you can post where this requirement is, it will be helpful to all. Do you find this valuable? |
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PlayAndWatch |
2. RE: Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
Oct 12 2009, 1:20 AM EDT
"I have looked through both Tattersall's and Tabcorp's Codes of Practice and could not find this requirement.I's now more than a year later & this is the next post on this thread. Perhaps Banpokies1 was passing on some info & either didn't have the sources or feared revealing them might compromise someone. If people have heard something or believe it but don't have clear evidence, I hope they won't make bald authoritative statements without some verbal hedging. Banpokies1 seemed to be convincing, & has even named the QC involved in the relevant action but I wonder if he's given us a verbatim quote of the undertaking. It would be a ridiculous undertaking for Tabcorp Holdings to make. Everytime a machine runs out of cash it is not functional & useable until it's refilled & reset. Other faults also develop during a trading period & even if a technician was there to start fixing the machine in seconds, the machine is not going to be usable while it's serviced. Someone should follow this up, but I'm not promising to even remember about it. Do you find this valuable? |
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Banpokies1 |
3. RE: Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
May 2 2011, 12:55 PM EDT
"I's now more than a year later & this is the next post on this thread. Perhaps Banpokies1 was passing on some info & either didn't have the sources or feared revealing them might compromise someone.Tabcorp Holdings were found to have breached the venue operator's code of practice that undertook that all pokies venues would maintain an attractive, appealing recreational environment for the service of pokies. The codes also stated that problem gambling would not be encouraged...or some such wording that now escapes me, especially since the codes were later altered to avoid a reoccurrence of that sort of claim. The Victorian consumer laws did not provide consumer receipts that made responsible pokies consumer budgeting harder or indeed impossible, given the nature of pokies consumer spending patterns. My notes etc and the Independent Person's reports are all packed away sorry...but I will endeavour to find them and prove my statements above. Fact was that Tabcorp gave an undertaking in the ICRP not to continue their harmful practices. Later ignored. Do you find this valuable? |
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Banpokies1 |
4. RE: Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
May 2 2011, 1:02 PM EDT
"I have looked through both Tattersall's and Tabcorp's Codes of Practice and could not find this requirement. I believe that Tatt's Code can be found here: http://www.vgmis.org/frame.asp?content=code_prc.html I believe that the Tabcorp code is found here:The requirement to not close machines early was never in the codes of practice....but the requirement to present an attractive venue at all times was listed. The codes were changed after that issue was resolved. Servicing of machines was not seen to be an issue if machines were re-opened in a timely manner whilst a venue remained open....or if an obvious breakdown had occurred. WHat happened was that venue owners were keeping thier venues open to attract problem gamblers...and they were doing thier machine 'housekeeping' that was distressing to consumers, during opening hours. Do you find this valuable? |
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Banpokies1 |
5. RE: Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
May 2 2011, 1:27 PM EDT
"The requirement to not close machines early was never in the codes of practice....but the requirement to present an attractive venue that was conducive to responsible gambling at all times, was listed. The codes were changed after that issue was resolved. Hand-written consumer receipts 'on request' were also introduced as a stop gap measure in venues...until cards could be introduced as was expected.Sincere apologies...the first ICRP was taken against Tabcorp Holdings as the gaming machine operator....but that claim failed. The second ICRP was successful. The consumer took the same complaint against individual venue operators. The consumer complaints were upheld by Michael Heaton QC and a payout was awarded but declined. It was intended that a group of 10 people would later take a class action via VCAT that was possible when the ICRP complaint commenced in 2004. By 2005-6 when it was completed VCAT had changed its rules and class actions could no longer be taken. The consumer who had made preliminary enquiries to VCAT before taking the ICRP complaint did not know that the VCAT rules were newly altered until after the ICRP had completed. The payout that was refused was later indirectly collected as result of a 3rd ICRP that came out of the 2nd one. Had the 2nd ICRP payout been accepted, the 3rd ICRP would not have occurred...and the payout increased so justice was done indirectly. The 3rd complaint was taken against one venue operator who had breached the ICRP confidentiality rules after the 2nd ICRP. Do you find this valuable? |
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Banpokies1 |
6. RE: Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
May 2 2011, 1:44 PM EDT
"Sincere apologies...the first ICRP was taken against Tabcorp Holdings as the gaming machine operator....but that claim failed. The second ICRP was successful. The consumer took the same complaint against individual venue operators. The consumer complaints were upheld by Michael Heaton QC and a payout was awarded but declined. It was intended that a group of 10 people would later take a class action via VCAT that was possible when the ICRP complaint commenced in 2004. By 2005-6 when it was completed VCAT had changed its rules and class actions could no longer be taken. The consumer who had made preliminary enquiries to VCAT before taking the ICRP complaint did not know that the VCAT rules were newly altered until after the ICRP had completed. The payout that was refused was later indirectly collected as result of a 3rd ICRP that came out of the 2nd one. Had the 2nd ICRP payout been accepted, the 3rd ICRP would not have occurred...and the payout increased so justice was done indirectly. The 3rd complaint was taken against one venue operator who had breached the ICRP confidentiality rules after the 2nd ICRP."Tabcorp VENUE OPERATORS undertook as a firm undertaking that was directed by Michael Heaton QC and was to agreed by My Murray of Tabcorp, that a written drective would be sent to ALL venue operators... to NOT close machines down for house-keeping, routine maintenance, during opening hours. This undertaking formed part of the written ICRP report and was noted by Mr Heaton QC. It was also heard by 3 people, the consumer and 2 witnesses. To say it is not true is quite wrong. Right now the same old practices are being followed in many pokies venues in the last 2 hours prior to venue closing...same consumer detriment is occurring from the same induced stress....and Tabcorp Holdings venues have again broken an undertaking that was meant to be upheld by Tabcorp Holdins AND their venue operators who were involved in the second ICRP case. (Check reports, VGMI?) Do you find this valuable? |
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Posted Anonymously |
7. RE: Keeping ALL poker machines open until the time of closing.
Aug 14 2011, 5:46 PM EDT
"Point is...early machine-closing was found to exacerbate an addicted problem gambler's spending by inciting anxiety, frustration, fear and desire to play harder and faster, similar to study findings that examined poker machine users' behaviour when it was argued that machines must not become 'scarce commodities' in venues.The Venue Operators' Code of Practice was found to have been breached by venues who closed machines early. The Tabcorp venues that we have visited since, have all broken this rule (except Aces) and the promise by Tabcorp Holdings has been ignored and allowed to be broken." Maybe there's something less sinister to this whole issue - the poor old graveyard staff probably haven't had any customers in hours and want to go home early so they've decided to record the meters a bit early. Not company practice, but hey it happens, especially when staff are only given 15min after close to complete everything, things have to get done while the venue is still open. No conspiracy theory there, sorry! Do you find this valuable? |
